I was actually waiting for this post. Mike, you're ignorant, but at least you're predictable too.

I recommend this as a starting point for your research.
Primerica Financial Services - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since this is a potential career move for me, you owe me at least a cursory inspection before you go shooting your mouth off any further.

I would be happy to answer any concerns you might have about the integrity of the company - if of course you actually have anything more than the nebulous idea that it's a "scam" to offer up.

Yes, I've done my research already. As far as I am concerned, an MLM (or Pyramid scheme if you may) is not for me.

The scam aspect of this was more due to a couple factors:

#1) This offer was completely unsolicted
#2) Ssa had not received a similar message at the time (I don't know if you sent him one)
#3) The offer was made through a strange channel. I would have expected something like this via a phone call or direct email, but facebook??
#4) Due to Ssa's previous privacy issues on facebook, I didn't know if the message was legit.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect, although I didn't expect you to join in an MLM either. I've seen friends go through MLM programs before, and nobody's ever come out ahead. Have fun, but no thank you.

Also, have a look at some of the comments on the following blog ( Alex Le’s Blog / Primerica… scam or not? ) before you sign your life away. There are arguments both for and against Primerica. I find it funny that the first two commentors agree (relatively objectively) and the third calls them rats and drones on about the benefits...:

"Not for you," you say? That's fine; I wasn't asking you to join.

"MLM" and "pyramid schemes" are totally different entities. Multi-level marketing is a model that legitimate businesses often use to provide the incentive for advancement within their organization. Pyramid schemes lack any kind of tangible product or service, and when you buy into them, you're just buying into the ability to have other people buy into you.

Yes, the offer was unsolicited. If that bothers you, I apologize. If you weren't sure it was really coming from me, then I can see why it would've been a little unsettling. I've never received spam on Facebook before; I receive hundreds of fake emails a day. Not having your phone number and figuring you were more of an online correspondence type of guy, I figured I'd contact you through the easiest channel I had available. Call it laziness.

D didn't get anything similar, no, 'cause I didn't send it to him. I was planning on it, but we're supposed to focus on people who are settled down somewhat, homeowners, etc., initially - that's part of the training, because those are the people to whom the financial products that Primerica sells are primarily geared.

I will check out this blog you linked to. I'd be curious to know, though, since the only criterion on which the definition of an "MLM" is made is that people receive overrides on the work of their subordinates, what is it that you consider to be intrinsically unholy about them?

If nothing else, for $99 they're paying for my securities license and my insurance license, which usually cost a total of around $6,000. I don't really see how anyone can lose here...

Primerica has a tendancy to troll job sites and feed on people's expectations from such sites.

I got a call from them, uh, 5 years ago? I went to a meeting, I had an "interview" and before short, I realized they were just recruiting people to become the bottom row of this MLM.

They were really pushy, and insistent on your "target clientéle" being your own family and friends.

There was simply no way in hell I was going to sign up and come home and say "hey! how about you refinance your life through Primerica so I can get a small percentage of what you pay?" Whilst the four levels above me take an even larger percent... Yeah, No. The whole concept is a friends-know-friends type thing, and hey, sure why wouldn't I want my debt consolidated there? or my mortgage? You're my friend, I _trust_ you, right? It's a lot easier to believe a friend them some banker in a suit in a stuffy office.

Basically, they're a reseller for mostly CitiGroup services and various other services that fall under CitiGroup, since after all, they're a CitiGroup company.

Anyway, it's not a "scam" per-se. It's also not a career, unless you're lucky enough to rope in a bunch of people for the services and get some more sales aficionados under you.

And, since I have no debt, I'm not a target for Primerica. People with no debt are useless to them. (as much as they'll fluff up the other services, the debt consolidation and mortgages are the big money makers.)

You're wrong on a few points. Most of them, actually. Their primary services - in fact the ones that they formed and grew with - are mutual funds and life insurance. The concept of term life insurance coupled with high return investments, rather than pissing away money on overpriced "cash value" policies and putting your money into G.I.C.'s where it will basically stagnate at a whopping 3% annual return, is the foundation on which the company was built.

People with no debt are very useful to Primerica. In fact, it's best if you have something to invest. That's where they make most of their money. That, again, and life insurance.

The idea that they are "just recruiting people to become the bottom row of this MLM" is ridiculous. It's not a pyramid scheme; they don't make any money on you unless you are successful at what you do. If you're not out there earning commissions on your sales, they make zero money. In fact, since they're paying for two expensive licensing processes AND paying to train you in preparation for the exams, they lose a considerable amount of money if you get involved and then don't make anything for yourself.

Finally, this insinuation you're making about the business being about exploiting your friends and family is both baseless and insulting. The reality is very much the opposite. I would never prey on anyone, for anything. In fact, at a few points in this process I've all but made up my mind to quit, and the one thing that's kept me involved is that I know a few people who are in desperate need of exactly the sort of thing that Primerica does, and it will give me the opportunity to help people. The fact that people are out there keeping their money in G.I.C.'s or savings accounts, paying way too much interest on their mortgages, and buying these ridiculous cash value life insurance policies, proves that there is a very clear need for the education and advice that Primerica provides, and for their products. These are products and services that people should be buying anyway, if they want to make optimal use of the money they already have. If you'd rather the commission went to the stuffy guy in the suit rather than to a friend or family member, you have a pretty twisted perspective on life.

As for whether or not it's a career, well, I'm hedging my bets, believe me. Not because I don't think it could be a career; I'm just not willing to count on it until I see some results. In fact, I'm occupied full time with other things as of November 1st; this is going to be a moonlight thing for me unless and until it takes off. If it doesn't, then I've lost very little and may be able to take my licenses with me (haven't read the fine print on that one... since they're footing the bill it wouldn't surprise me if they want you to pay for your own licenses retroactively if you go work for another company right off the bat). What I can say is that it's a better career for most people I've met who do it than most other careers are for most other people (hard sentence to follow, but it makes sense). I've met a lot of people in business in the last several years. Salespeople, engineers, entrepreneurs, chemists, technicians, programmers, bankers, you name it. Some of them, I thought, were doing well for themselves. My boss at Primerica has a high school education and makes a million dollars a year. I'd like to do better one day, but it's nothing to sneeze at. Given that this company is running four or five fair-sized offices full of people in London alone, I'd say it's a pretty decent career for a whole lot of people.

People here will rant and rave forever about the evils of Corporate America, the evils of banks, the evils of advertising. But present them with a company that wants to actually help the end user rather than just exploiting them, that brings themselves to you first and foremost through people you know rather than posters and TV ads, that believes banks are your enemies and wants to see them lose business, and they reject it summarily.

You probably believe that the people who latch on to stuff like this expecting it to make them rich are pretty laughable. Beyond the sadness it brings me, I'd have to agree with you. But it's not their belief that good things can come in life, that mutually beneficial arrangements are plausible, that they might actually have something to learn from someone else, that makes those people stupid. It's the fact that they approach situations with a weak mind - one that is made up before they start to listen. They don't trust themselves to make a real decision on something based on its own merits, so they allow their preconceptions, and what they want to believe, to make the choice for them. Some people do this by being implausibly optimistic; other people do it by being cynical. What I've seen here is exactly that same breed of stupidity; it differs only in polarity.

Forgive me for that; I was tired, and somewhat depressed.

Before I start this, I'd like to clarify something. I'm not retracting anything. I believe your reactions were stupid and that almost everything you said was ass backwards (Ssa, in your case, I suppose that is your name :P). I don't, however, feel that the way I approached the situation is likely to resolve any of that; it will just make you irritated and such.

So, here's what I propose. If you're skeptical, fine. I've got other people with whose cherished money I can abscond to fuel my evil corporate greed. I will go through the training process without help from either of you. When my licenses come back in a few months, we can each sit down and I will buy you a beer or several, and we'll go over things. NOT so you can "refinance your life," and NOT to try and recruit you (I'm based in London anyway; it would be a huge pain in the ass to have either of you on my team); just to see if there's a way that Primerica can help you get more value out of your money. That's it.

If, after a financial needs analysis is complete (these don't take long), we determine that you're just fine as you are, then I will concede the argument, complete with a news post here on PoC humbly accepting defeat. If we find, for example, that you're storing your savings with ING Direct, I will be licensed to inform you that adding another 10 percentage points to your annual return is a matter of changing your mind, and won't cost you anything. And then you can concede the argument. And just to prove that my intentions are good, if you really still feel at the end of all that that the commission should go to the stuffy guy in the suit, you can take the recommendations to another Primerica rep or to another company entirely, and I won't make a dime on you.

In short, you have nothing whatsoever to lose (other than an argument), and you'll gain at least a few pints of free delicious beer. Deal?

K, there's more. Mike, I've been reading that blog post you sent me. The string of comments is intimidatingly long, but I've read a huge chunk of them. Contrary to your spin, there are some stupid drone-link rants on both sides of the fence, and some good objective evaluations as well.

Everyone there who isn't a dumbass drone agrees that Primerica is decidedly not a scam, and that it does good work and helps its customers. BUT... there are some excellent points raised by a few posters who suggest that there are better options out there, both for Primerica's customers and for recruits.

A lot of people have been talking about high-pressure tactics, exploitation, cold calling, promises of millions of dollars of personal wealth for very little work, and telling horror stories in general about their experiences. Then again, many of them also complained about having to pay $199 (now $99) for their licenses. I just kind of blinked when I read that. Did they think the education for their new career would be free?? Who knows. Anyway, that stupidity aside, one has to wonder about the integrity of a company that uses such techniques.

My experience, on the other hand, has been a total opposite. Ultra low pressure, an explicit ban on cold calling, the promise only that, as with any pursuit, I can make a good living if I work hard at it, and a strong focus on the idea that helping clients comes first and foremost; money is secondary.

So, perhaps I'm a newbie entering a company that has recently roped in some previous out-of-control policies. Or, maybe I'm joining an office that happens to have its practices really well under control, and maybe there are other offices that don't.

The strongest argument that anyone has made against them (and thanks, Mike, for making me aware of it) has nothing to do with anything either of you have said - most of which I still think is basically the product of total or partial ignorance. It is simply that there are other companies who have come into the market that offer lower premiums on insurance, a broader range of products, better mortgages, and a more attractive package for new recruits.

I can't verify or dispel that at this point; I haven't researched it well enough. If I'd been planning this as my primary career, I absolutely would have done so. Honestly, though, I hadn't ever even considered doing it full-time. I would die of boredom. Now that I've heard some of this stuff, though, I will certainly be doing some more in-depth research to discover all the options that are out there, and see if there really are better things in the world.

One thing that all of the anti-PFS exponents conveniently leave out of their posts is the issue of licensing. I pay $99 for what would cost me thousands of dollars anywhere else, and I don't need a post-secondary education to be considered - I just have to prove that I can learn the material and pass the exams. I find it funny that most of these anti-PFS dudes started off with Primerica and then left for something better, yet fail to mention that they took their licenses, for which they paid basically nothing, with them. That, however, is a side issue and doesn't really affect the main point: is there something better that I should be getting involved with instead? Quite possibly. I am now on a part-time quest to find out.

"Forgive me for that; I was tired, and somewhat depressed."

Pfft don't ask for forgiveness on that. Call everyone on their shit in here. That was my favourite part of the postings. I call it "stick it to the men"

Heheh :)